The Truth Behind Demi Lovato and Selena Gomez's Fallout: A Complete History of Their Friendship & Feuds
Imagine that you and your hometown gal are good friends. Both of you land a role on the same network not once, but twice. You’re best friends, you’re starring in a movie together, and you’re slowly making your impact in Hollywood together. Then BAM! You’re no longer friends. Was there a reason? Come on… there’s always a reason.
And I’m assuming that’s why you’re here today; you want to know the reasoning behind why Demi Lovato and Selena Gomez aren’t friends. And trust me, I’m going to tell you. Make sure you read until the complete end because I’m going to clarify things for you guys to the point where you’re going to be upset that YOU didn’t clarify it for yourself first.
Let’s start.
Demi & Selena’s Childhood
Over the years, I’ve had many sources. The information they revealed on both Demi & Selena’s relationship have always been consistent with each other despite the sources not even knowing each other. The best thing about both Demi and Selena is that they’re both big mouths. Demi loves exposing tea and Selena exposes tea accidentally. It’s amazing.
Demi and Selena are both from Texas (Demi was born in New Mexico though). Demi grew up in Grapevine and Selena grew up in Grand Prairie.
Both of them were on Barney from 2002-2004.
Selena played “Gianna” and Demi played “Angela.” / PBS Kids
On set, they got along very well. They would hang out together and always eat their lunch together.
Even though the two of them knew each other since they were seven years old, it wasn’t until they were around 13 where they actually became friends.
Selena was an interesting child because one of my sources told me back in 2013 that they weren’t close friends until Mandy made Selena hang out with her because they were family friends. When they did hang out when they were younger, it was more of family functions as opposed to those kids that had play dates at that age.
:(( if you catch me cryin, mind ur business!
I remember mentioning this because Selena messes up and says that’s the age where they were friends (before correcting herself).
A source of mine once told me that Selena and Demi only became friends when Demi landed the role of Mitchie Torres in Disney’s “Camp Rock.” I guess that as teens they were able to relate to each other more when they were on the same network?
However, my source at this time told me that even during high school, Selena wasn’t interested in hanging around Dem, but it would only happen because her mother, Mandy, would force her because Mandy and Demi’s mother, Diana, were good friends.
This is important because it comes up again and from a difference source. I also have these messages up in 2013 before a different source spoke about this specific details; you’ll see in a moment.
Their Teen Years
In 2007, Demi was on a short series called As The Bell Rings on Disney Channel, before she landed the role in Camp Rock. Selena’s show, Wizards of Waverly Place also premiered in 2007.
Demi and Selena were the best of friends in 2008. They even started vlogging together (I can’t believe they spoke it into existence).
Even in 2009 they were the best of friends (until this specific story that I’m about to tell you, happened). They had a bunch of photoshoots together, they had their own movie called Princess Protection Program, they collabed on songs, Selena starred on Demi’s show, and they were basically your best friend goals during that era.
They even once had a “feud” with Miley Cyrus and her best friend Mandy lmaoooo.
Here’s where things start changing and get interesting.
As we all know, Demi has struggled with addiction issues, depression, suicidal thoughts, body image, as well as having an eating disorder. One of those things alone is extremely hard so if you combine all of them, it’s another level of hard. Now combine all of that and include the industry scene.
At this point in time, Selena and Demi started drifting because Selena was a kid so she didn’t understand what Demi was going through and quite frankly, she didn’t want to. She wanted to enjoy this newfound world of fame, attention, and money.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame her. She was like 17 at this point and mental health wasn’t as understood as it is today.
So when you combine that ignorance and naivety, it’s going to result in a bunch of bad things.
During this time, Selena befriended Taylor Swift—or as I like to call her, Selena’s master.
Getty Images
This story I’m about to tell you took place a long time ago around late 2009 (I’m guessing November 2009). I’ve posted this story before which was from a different source, SE. After all these years, I can confirm that this story is 100% true and many people have confirmed it for me. I’ll post the ancient messages afterwards.
Here’s how the story goes:
Taylor, a local friend named Darren, Sammy Droke, and a few others, were all hanging out at Selena’s who was about to go on tour.
Taylor, Sammy, and Selena (this photo was taken in 2012 and is irrelevant to the story).
Selena’s mom came into the room and said “Aren’t you inviting Demi around?” Selena just looked at her mom and said something along the lines of, “She’s just giddy and in your face all the time. She’s always complaining over something.”
Selena then said you’d think she would be grateful to have this lifestyle and yet “everything bothers her. She’s always upset over something, always ranting on. It’s just so boring. When Demi got bullied out of high school, my mom would force me to go around her.” This led Selena to explain that her mom made her hang out with Demi because of their family friends and connections. Mandy then spoke about how Diana got Demi involved with Disney (insinuating that they’re on the same network and they should be closer than ever). To which Selena replied saying, “Oh I’m not seeing her, it’s embarrassing if she’s going to sit there in front of all my friends and be how she is.”
Take a breather before I continue. If you’re even skeptical that this happened, then what are you doing here? But if you want the backstory behind the “Ask Taylor” remark, then just keep reading. Oh and just wait until you see what Demi says in interviews.
Back to the story.
Mandy then tells Selena that Demi is going to be calling so don’t actually tell her you don’t want her around. At that moment, the source says that Selena’s phone started ringing which led everyone in the group to burst out laughing since they were just talking about it. Taylor then picked up the phone for Selena and said, “Sorry, Selena’s a bit busy.” She proceeded to throw the phone to Selena who mouthed “I can’t speak, I’ll just laugh.” This led Darren to grab the phone and say “Selena doesn’t like you anymore sorry!” and hung up the phone. Selena was then “mad at him” but couldn’t stop laughing.
I want you to imagine a legit mean girls scenario because this is exactly what it was.
This led Demi to not contact Selena for 4 months and then they had a huge argument because of what Demi ended up saying in an interview. According to the source, “Demi said something like ‘true friends don’t let their friends or family be mean to you’ something like that. Then they just drifted [away].”
Let me take you through the timeline.
Their Public Friendship Breakup
In January 2010, a fan asked Demi “How’s Selena?” in which Demi responded saying “Ask Taylor :-)”
Demi said that because Selena left her to hang out with Taylor and basically replaced her with Taylor. That hurt Demi.
If you fast forward to June 2010, Demi’s Girl’s Life Magazine interview comes out in which she says exactly what the source was mentioning—TRUE FRIENDS DON’T LET THEIR FRIENDS OR FAMILY BE MEAN TO YOU. She even said that she can’t trust Selena.
Here’s a page of the interview:
bottom right corner.
According to the source, they had a huge falling out because of what Demi said in the interview.
I’m confused on WHY Selena was mad though? Because she was getting exposed publicly? I mean she had no right to treat Demi the way she did just because she didn’t understand what she was going through. Even if she didn’t understand it, why abandon her for your more rich and famous friend? Oh right… that’s why. Connect the dots my friends!
In July 2013, Demi said, “Just because you grew up with somebody doesn’t mean they’re your best friend. I’ve had situations where I’ve grown up with people who I thought were my best friends, then they haven’t been there for me when I’ve been through something really difficult. People change.”
She said this in the July 2013 issue of BLISS magazine which took place in February 2013.
Here’s a few pages from that magazine interview:
the quote is in the top right corner
If you don’t believe the source’s story, how do you explain the turn of events and what Demi said in the interview? Friends like Demi & Selena don’t just stop being friends out of nowhere.
Here are the messages that go along that story which were already published on this blog in 2013:
The fact that this source said the same thing about Mandy making Selena hang out with Demi when they were younger just adds on to what my original source told me about that.
Demi’s First Rehab Stint
Demi left tour with the Jonas Brothers in November 2010 to go to rehab and get help for her problems.
When Demi went to rehab, Selena felt such strong guilt to the point where it literally could have killed her. Suddenly the way she treated Demi and the way she isolated her and let her friends be mean to her, became clear to her that it cost her her friendship with her best friend who was struggling more than anyone knew.
Keep all this in mind for later.
Selena ends up admitting all of this in 2014. In her March 2014 issue with Seventeen Magazine, she said "She [Demi] was going through things and I was so young and it was confusing. I processed it saying, 'OK, I don't understand what she's going through so I'm just going to do this.” Selena continues saying that she wasn’t the most supportive friend to Demi and that, “I don’t think it was fair” of her to distance herself from Demi during that time.
March 2014 issue. Ben Watts/Seventeen
Up until now, everything I said was posted on my blog in 2013. For Selena to confirm it in 2014 slipped my mind, but at least it provides some credibility today for all of you reading.
In 2013, Demi actually said that when she was in rehab, Selena called her in tears from how worried she was. Demi told Selena, “Look, I should be the one crying, it's all good!' But she was so worried and ever since then, we've gotten closer."
At minute 5:26 is when Demi starts talking about this:
Demi ended up forgiving Selena for being mean to her, for letting her friends be mean to her, and for just not being there for her when she needed her the most.
When Demi got out of rehab in 2011, she and Selena publicly reunited:
Things were good for a while between them, but they were never close again.
At the 2011 TCAs, they posed together and they were radiating happiness:
Here they are at the 2011 VMAs:
2011 New Year’s Eve:
They drifted apart in 2012 until the end the of 2013, but it wasn’t until 2014 in which they had a big fight all over again. Before the big fight, they were closer than they have ever been in years.
At this point, Selena & Demi didn’t have another reason to fight and it was just them trying to get back to normal after their original fallout.
Where It All Changes—This Sets Their Foundation For The Future
anyone else sad seeing their old pics??? no?? just me??
Here’s something that none of you know.
According to one of my sources, what brought Selena & Demi closer again towards the end of 2013 is when Selena started struggling with drug addiction. Any veteran reader of mine knows that 2013 is when Selena’s downfall started.
When Selena started struggling, Demi was there for her every step of the way. Demi didn’t want Selena to go through what she did and she didn’t want her to be alone.
THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT ^ INFORMATION TO GRASP.
In November 2013, Selena and Demi reunited again when Selena performed on The X-Factor where Demi was a judge.
November 8, 2013
My guess is that somewhere around that time is when Selena opened up to Demi about her issues.
Things were getting really bad for Selena to the point where she even paid Demi a visit at her sober home in December 2013:
Selena posted that photo of them on Instagram and Demi replied back to her on Twitter.
It was rumored that Demi was part of the intervention that Selena underwent so she can get checked in rehab. One of my readers actually told me that Demi mentioned helping someone out with an intervention in an interview in 2013… if you can find that, let me know.
All was well in December 2013 because Selena’s 2 besties wanted to be there for her.
Demi was even happy to be involved and friends with both of them considering it was an upgrade from Selena constantly abandoning her for Taylor; to being included.
Anyways!
Selena’s First Rehab Stint & Demi Taking Care of Her
Selena checked into rehab in January 2014. This was top secret and the ONLY ones to tell you that she was secretly in rehab was… us. Not even blind sites mentioned it. They mentioned that she needed help and was getting help at home, but no one reported she was IN REHAB except us. Don’t worry, we got proof.
Selena’s 2014 rehab stint was not like everyone else’s. She denies that it was for drug and alcohol problems (despite the rehab facility that she was at specializing in that) and there was a plan set in motion when she went.
For starters, she was seen with Justin Bieber the week she was going to rehab so when she disappeared for 2 weeks, no one questions her. They’d just assume that she’s with Justin.
Justin also reunited with her to be supportive during that time despite them breaking up and Selena dragging his name through public hell.
What people don’t know is that…. Demi did too. Demi made sure to go see Selena before she was checked into rehab.
Selena was then checked into rehab on January 5, 2014.
My source told me that Demi wanted to make sure that Selena has a friend by her side and that she isn’t alone during this time. She wanted to make sure Selena didn’t go through what she went through.
It’s sad. Not once did I ever see anyone talk about Demi being there for Selena before her first rehab visit. Instead, it’s always twisted around to say that Demi betrayed Selena. That’s the most absurd claim I’ve ever heard considering Demi made sure to be there for her despite Selena not being there for Demi. However, Demi forgave her for that as I already stated.
Moving on!
When Selena was secretly in rehab in January 2014, it was only for 2 weeks and no one knew about it until February 5, 2014, when E! revealed it.
So when Selena secretly left rehab, Demi took her out to dinner on January 24, 2014.
VLUV / Splash News
VLUV / Splash News
Demi also wanted to be there for her because at the time, Justin was arrested so she wanted to make sure Selena was okay.
Demi and Selena even sat together at Variety’s ‘unite4:humanity’ event on February 27, 2014.
John Shearer/Invision/AP/Shutterstock
Things were good for them.
Remember the Seventeen interview of Selena’s from March 2014 that I already mentioned? Because Demi was there for Selena during that horrible time, Selena felt like Demi was the only person to understand her. Here’s what she ended up saying about her:
That was also the same interview in which Selena said that it wasn’t fair of her to abandon Demi when she wasn’t doing well. When Selena went through what Demi went through and she started struggling with her mental health, she finally understood Demi which is why she said it wasn’t fair of her to abandon Demi.
Anyone who kept up with Selena during this time knew that you can count on her to do one thing—shade Justin Bieber.
If you weren’t here during that time or you were unaware of what was going on, stay out of it or find yourself some receipts (check out our master post).
Anyone who gets close to Selena ends up hating Justin at one point or another because of the story she sells. Now pay attention because as I always say, time reveals all.
Demi hated Justin for the sake of Selena.
For the record, Demi ended up clairfying this saying it wasn’t a diss and blah blah blah
There were a lot of examples of Demi doing little things that showed that she wasn’t in favor of Justin. For some odd reason, I’m drawing a blank on other examples so drop some in the comment section down below if you remember.
Selena becomes a mess again, but now she’s lying about it….
According to my source, a main issue that Demi started developing with Selena was being annoyed with her for lying about her drug usage AND continuously going back to Justin after everything she told her about him.
Who else has this same bone to pick with Selena? Taylor Swift.
And this is theme with our gal, Selena.
In April 2014, Selena went to Coachella with the Jenners.
There were several reports that day that stated that Selena was high off her ass at Coachella. All the locals there said she reeked of alcohol and that she could barely hold herself up. Who did she reunite with there? Justin, her big bad ex. Justin literally had to take care of her that night from how bad she was.
I have the receipts don’t worry.
The Jenners were like ???? when they saw her in that state and so Selena dropped them and her team sold a story to TMZ about how she left them because they were bad influences on her with the drugs. She’s a smart girl—pin them before they pin you.
I had a wholeeee story up about this back in 2014. It’s one of the main reasons why Kris Jenner never ended up signing Selena. Ooooof so much info there. Let me know if you guys want a post about that.
You’ll see how this is relevant to Demi and Selena.
Here’s my posts about Selena’s drama with the Kardashians from 2014:
If you guys read my posts from 2014, try to ignore my drags and cringy writing LMAOOO. I was a mean gal. Btw, if I’m linking anything in that post, it’s not going to work because it will redirect you to tumblr which we no longer have. Any posts linked there can be found on the master post here.
“What does all of this have to do with Demi and Selena????!!!!”
Yes so, it became PUBLIC news to everyone that Selena was a hypocritical mess. And by everyone I mean their inside circles who knew the truth and not the BS that’s fed in the media. By the way, during 2014, the lupus narrative wasn’t invented yet so all articles were writing about Selena’s supposed drug and alcohol problems. The lupus narrative started in 2015 and that’s when Selena really first started talking about it.
Back to Demi.
Demi & Selena’s Second Public Friendship Breakup
In July 2014, Demi unfollowed Selena on Twitter.
who else got you guys with the ancient screenshots besides your girls here at esmg????
Demi then tweeted this:
2014 was burning with tea. Just like I could count on Selena to shade Justin during that time, I could count on Demi to expose something. (D7 coming in 2021, wait for her to confirm a lot of thingssss)
One of my sources from the ancient days of 2014, gave me a lot of information from the family side of things.
She told me that Selena called up someone in Texas to rant about how a friend she thought she’d have for life turned her back on her. This was in regards to Demi and Selena having another fight because she was reportedly using again and lying about it. Demi was upset that she was lying to her face about it considering 1. what Demi’s been through and 2. how Demi was there for her.
Here’s some more ancient screenshots (ignore my phone background LMAOO I was obsessed with downloading those things that change your messaging app back in the day):
Blindgossip reported the same exact thing a day later. I remember my readers kept saying that they’re stealing this story from me lmaoooo.
The fight they had during that time was epic and it was about everything. Demi told her that she needed serious help for at least a month, but Selena wasn’t having it. It pained Demi to see Selena like that, but she couldn’t help someone who didn’t want to be helped.
In August, Demi was asked about why she unfollowed Selena on Twitter. She said, "I think it's just one of those things where people change and people grow apart.”
At this point, Demi felt like she did what she could and there was nothing else to do. It wasn’t just the substance abuse, but it was also the fact that she kept saying all this sh-t about Justin yet going back to him.
During this phase, all of Selena’s true friends were fed up with her. Taylor wasn’t even talking to her behind closed doors. We had a post all about that in 2014 as well.
They weren’t mad at Selena just to be mad at her. They were fed up with her because they loved her.
Their Era of Being Civil
Moving forward, Demi and Selena stayed civil starting in 2015. The 2 of them were friendly for old time’s sake.
In August 2015, Demi followed Selena on Instagram.
Later that month, Selena wished Demi a happy birthday on Twitter.
In 2015, Selena was part of Taylor’s girl squad (where are they now?????).
2015 VMAs. Credit: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images
During this time, both of them are being civil with each other and letting bygones be bygones.
Demi also really wanted both of them to be close again, but it was just one of those things where the most they could do during that time was just support each other from afar.
Even though they were interacting on social media in August 2015, come the VMAs and they didn’t even talk.
Selena was busy with Taylor and their girl squad for show.
So it was one of those situations where it was sad that they didn’t interact and Demi probably felt a little bit of jealousy from her side because Taylor has always been someone that Selena chose over Demi.
Then in September, Demi tweeted the following:
At this point, Demi and Selena start developing this friendship that’s only for show.
It’s sad, but it’s true.
We’re Interacting Because It’s Good For Business
Many celebrities interact together for show and nothing sells a story like NOSTALGIA! However, if you do anything for show, it will end up crumbling on you especially when there are personal feelings involved.
This brings us to 2016. During this time, both Selena and Demi think the other is out to get them. You know when it’s friends turned enemies so you fear that the person that knows everything about you ends up exposing you? Yeah that was the situation here. I mean Selena did say that Demi was the only person who knew her deepest darkest secrets. And unlike Taylor, Demi didn’t judge Selena because Demi was just as messy.
they have a lot of cute pics together when they were young
In 2016, Selena ends up getting checked into rehab for the second time.
In 2017, it was like publicity central for Demi and Selena. I don’t say this in a bad way. It’s good publicity and celebrities will do anything for good publicity.
Selena’s credibility was kind of dying off at this point so her team was scrambling to get her in the general public’s good graces. She was in a “relationship” with The Weeknd and still getting hate for her anti-BLM comment she made the year before when sucking up to Taylor who dismissed her so fast.
Selena was just under public scrutiny and part of it has to do with not being well perceived by Abel’s audience and with Justin Bieber in the good graces of the public again, the tables were turned and she wasn’t on the good side of it.
Taylor also dropped Selena that year and Selena wasn’t in the good graces of any of the public girls. All you need to fix that is a spice of good publicity and girl power.
I actually had a whole post about that back in 2017. Read it here:
In that post I included messages between a friend and I where we discussed that drama:
That was July 7, 2017. Following those messages, a public interaction happened between Selena and Demi on July 14, 2017.
I even got my source’s thoughts on it and here’s what she said:
Now you may be thinking, “it ain’t that serious” and that’s actually where you’re wrong. You all have been confused by Demi and Selena’s friendship for a decade because you never were able to process the facts in front of you.
im kidding LMAOOO ily guys that’s why im here!!
Aside from their personal issues that I already explained, a lot of their interaction for the years afterwards was strictly because it was good for their image as opposed to it being genuine. Understanding that is the first step to understanding why their relationship is so fragile and why it falls apart every few months.
Their last public appearance was at the 2017 InStyle Awards.
Demi’s Second Rehab Stint
Fast forward to the following year, Demi had a public overdose in July 2018.
Selena claims that she reached out to Demi privately, but besides that, they don’t really talk.
However, Selena had a source speak on her behalf when Demi had her overdose which honestly is kind of low, in my opinion. It’s no secret that Selena has close ties to E! (we’ve spoken about this before) and it just seems a little fake that she had to make sure there was damage control being taken publicly since she wasn’t saying anything.
It speaks volumes that Selena was saying all that and yet her actions were different.
It shows you the difference between them espicially when Demi was present around Selena’s rehab visit whilst Selena was at Disneyland around Demi’s… not once… but twice…. (I’m referring to Demi’s first rehab visit in 2010 when Selena was also not around).
Keep this in mind because all of this aids into the hurt that ends up happening.
This brings us to our next and final fallout—the present.
Earlier this month, I published a post about what happened when Demi signed with Scooter in May 2019. Read it here:
That post revealed more tea about everyone’s reactions when Demi signed with Scooter. When it came to Selena, my source says that she sent her a passive aggressive text congratulating her.
Why was Selena mad? Because her master Taylor was, so Selena obviously follows blindly. I went in depth about that whole drama in that post so check it out.
This brings us to what Demi said in April 2020 where she flat out says that she’s not friends with Selena anymore.
As you guys can see by the timeline of their relationship, nothing happened publicly for them to not be friends, right? That’s where you WILL GO WRONG if you believe that just because it wasn’t public, it didn’t happen.
This shows you that their relationship was fragile for the past couple of years because it wasn’t real. A large chunk of it was for show because it was good for business. You ever have those friends that you pose with at a group hang just because you once knew each other? I definitely do.
This gives you the false impression that everything is okay but that doesn’t mean you know the true story.
Demi didn’t wake up one morning and decide to not be friends with Selena. It’s been a decade of ups and downs for the both of them.
And if Demi didn’t hold her tongue in that interview, she would have kept going and saying that Selena does things for show. She congratulated Demi at the Grammys, but Selena where were you when Demi needed a friend to talk to in 2018? How about 2019? Where were YOU when she suffered an overdose and was in rehab? Because I sure as hell know where Demi was when Selena was in & out of rehab.
As you guys saw in 2014, Demi made sure to be there for her leading up to her rehab stint and after her rehab stint.
There was a whole rumor going around that originated by Selena’s fans that said that Selena visited Demi at the hospital in 2018. Um no.. Selena was in Disneyland. The only ones to visit Demi were her family and that horrid ex-boyfriend of hers (no not the homeless Max Ehrich. She didn’t know that swine back then. I’m talking about Wilmer).
I wish I can see the good in Selena, I really do, but she’s not offering anything. She knows how much hate Demi got for publicly saying they are not friends and yet she continues to pretend like they’re “ok” on her end only for good publicity.
Selena knows how to work the media and what the media will pick up on.
Selena gets those types of headlines while Demi is painted as the bad person in the media and by fans only because she doesn’t want to entertain a dead friendship that has hurt her more than she could have imagined.
Instead, Demi now gets hate for fake finsta screenshots and she’s painted in a negative light all because Selena was able to play the media well.
A person like Selena will always do things for show because they have a lot to hide. For Demi, she doesn’t hide much which is why it’s easy for people to target her for her flaws and mistakes… they ain’t hidden!
Selena will always pretend to be on good terms with someone or even imply that there is a stronger friendship there than it actually is. This is what she does with Ariana Grande. And arguably this is what Ariana Grande does with a lot of celebrities. It’s not a bad thing, I mean do you, it is the business. But this is where it’s difficult for fans (especially the deluded ones) to differentiate between a facade and reality.
Do you realize how Justin and Demi are now friends now that the common problem is out of the picture?
Demi isn’t claiming Selena publicly because she’s bitter. She’s hurt. Demi has always been hurt by Selena and she always wished that Selena could be there for her the way she was. She had a soft spot in her heart for Selena, but there’s only so much a person can take on just because they care for you.
Unfortunately, it came at the sake of their friendship.
Their friendship wasn’t strong enough to survive everything they each independently went through because it takes both people to put in the effort. You’d think Selena learned the first time around, but she didn’t. And sure Selena goes through her own issues, but she’ll always make room for things she wants to make room for. Whether that’s shading Justin & his wife or abiding to Taylor’s demands. She has priorities and Demi ain’t part of it despite making her a priority.
That’s what it comes down to.
Are they feuding? No. They are just not friends.
Hopefully now that you guys have the full story in front of you, you are able to understand exactly what happened and why everything turned out the way it did. Stay tuned for this upcoming week where we will publish the Demi Lovato As A Person post so we can get a deeper look into Demi’s crazy ass.
Let me know what you think! Comment down below your thoughts and questions. You can comment anonymously so take advantage of that! We will be reading and replying back ;)
This post wraps up Schedule 2. Onto Schedule 3! Btw, sorry it was a day late. It’s fcking long!